Prosecutor To Probe CIA Interrogations
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Attorney General Eric Holder has asked federal prosecutor John Durham to examine whether CIA interrogations of suspected terrorists were illegal, the Justice Department announced Monday."
Good! It's about fucking time somebody grew some balls!"WASHINGTON (AP) - A newly declassified CIA report says interrogators threatened to kill the children of a Sept. 11 suspect.
The document, released Monday by the Justice Department, says one interrogator said a colleague had told Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that if any other attacks happened in the United States, "We're going to kill your children."...Another interrogator allegedly tried to convince a different terror suspect detainee that his mother would be sexually assaulted in front of him — though the interrogator in question denied making such a threat"
What the fuck? Our government threatening to kill children and rape mothers?
This isn't the America I grew up in. I don't care what the external threat may be. I grew up in a world that could end in nuclear annihilation on 20 minutes notice. I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember being in 2nd grade, leaving for school in the morning knowing that the world could be engulfed in thermonuclear flames before the end of the school day.
But even then, it was understood that the United States would never, ever, initiate hostilities. As my father (a veteran of WWII in the Merchant Marine and The Korean Conflict in the Army) explained it to me, "we don't start wars...we finish them".
I was raised to believe that America leads by example. We don't stoop to the level of the terrorists. We don't BECOME terrorists.
We are a nation founded on the rule of law. We must always, ALWAYS follow the law.
When we cast the law aside in the name of expediency and lower ourselves to the level of our enemies, we have ceased to be Americans.
I hope Durham is given the authority to follow the evidence and prosecute any official, at any level who attempted to pull America down to the level of a terrorist.
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15 comments:
The next thing you'll say that John Wayne was the best cowboy ever and Stallone single-handedly defeated the Russian army in Afghanistan. Most of the stuff you mentioned here is lies and propaganda, from the truth about the missile crisis to how America was always so nice and shiny. Reminded me of the jackasses at the healthcare townhalls screaming about the America "they grew up in". But we already had this discussion more than once. BTW you daily "fuck you" could be technically described as "he was threatening to brutally sodomize the person". Just sayin'
m.v. - "Most of the stuff you mentioned here is lies and propaganda" Can you be more specific?
yes,like Kennedy wasn't really a big hero in the missile crisis and it was a giant intelligence screw-up.and the USA screwed up most of the Central America so they can grow bananas and sugar and whatever else.and multiple coups,murders,rigged elections staged by the CIA around the world from Japan to Africa. and Iran-Contras. and Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Tibet.and Osama Bin Laden,Saddam Hussein,Mugabe,etc,etc. and torture,illegal imprisonment,espionage,spending completely uncontrolled by congress,bay of pigs.I keep promising you the book I have,and I will some day remember to bring it to you.It's really not a conspiracy book or anything,every word is referenced to normal sources.So no,America was never straight,honest,honorable.Just like any other superpower.BTW,the USSR I grew up in was just the same-protector of the weak and liberator of the oppressed.
m.v. - "Kennedy wasn't really a big hero in the missile crisis and it was a giant intelligence screw-up"
Agreed.
m.v. - "...the USA screwed up most of the Central America so they can grow bananas and sugar and whatever else..."
Agreed.
m.v. - "...and Iran-Contras. and Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia,Tibet.and Osama Bin Laden,Saddam Hussein,Mugabe,etc,etc. and torture,illegal imprisonment,espionage,spending completely uncontrolled by congress,bay of pigs..."
Agreed.
I'm just saying it's time to put a stop to the hypocrisy.
If we don't start bringing world leaders up on criminal charges, this shit will never change.
Everyone should be accountable.
why start with Bush? Carter,Bush I and Clinton are still around,lets check their closets too. And would you be following through with Obama if GITMO is still open next year?We always have the same argument-either you apply the law across the board or it's just called revenge,nothing to do with what's right.
m.v - I would argue that GWB, Cheney, et. al., took previously bad policy to willfully criminal levels. They did so in a blatant attempt to grab executive power from the electorate. This is well documented.
Ive got to agree with MV on this one. I think you have such a hatred for Bush and Cheney that you just want to see them roasted. It borders on fanaticism. The CIA has used the same tactics for generations, shit didnt start on Dubya's watch. He sucked, but he was more dolt thn prince of darkness. This country was built on the backs of others, and stayed on top by any means neccesary. Truman killed countless innocents, in comparison Bush and Cheney were light wieghts. The only thing that will result from pursuing this issue, is dividing an already dived nation even more.
scuse the typos, my keyboards sticky.
mm - "I think you have such a hatred for Bush and Cheney that you just want to see them roasted"
Yeah. I do.
When 9/11 happened, the entire world was on our side. Every country said "We are all Americans now!"
Dubya, Cheney, Addison, and the neo-cons pissed in the face of that global good will and used it for a power grab.
We could have changed the world. We could have made the world a better place. We had that one opportunity.
But we decided to take the "only remaining super-bully" approach.
It's us or the highway! You're for us, or you're agin' us!
As a result, the rest of the world lent us token support for a few years, out of respect, then withdrew and said "all right, you arrogant fuckers, you're on your own now. Let us know how that works out for you!"
That's where we are now.
We screwed the pooch.
Bush and Cheney were at the wheel.
They took a historical pivot point, where there was a real opportunity to make a positive change, and they fucked it up.
So yeah. I blame them. I hold them responsible.
And where criminal actions took place, I want people held accountable and punished.
There was a unique place in history where things could have changed for the better.
They fucked it up.
They need to answer for that.
I don't believe you'd be singing this tune if someone you loved had their life on the line at the hands of a terrorist. I'd start with one finger and work up from there if my family was at risk. Tell me you wouldn't if young G.O. was the victim and I'll believe that you really believe this bullshit you just wrote
jools - there is a huge difference between what I as an individual would be willing to do and what we, as a nation, should be allowed to do.
Look, the United States has long had a policy of not negotiating with terrorists. They can be holding American citizens, be publically threatening to behead the, but the American government will not meet their demands and will not negotiate with them.
I'm sure the families of the people being held hostage would be willing to talk, negotiate, stall delay, whatever it takes to keep their family member alive.
But the United States does not have that luxury. We cannot negotiate with terrorists no matter what is at risk.
The same holds true for torture. Despite what we may feel as individuals, the United States must never, ever, under any circumstances resort to torture.
As a nation we put the rule of law above all else. Torture is illegal. Lawyers can try to wordsmith it all they like, but it is still torture, it is still illegal, and people who do it and condone it must be held accountable.
Well, I have to say I'm glad you're not POTUS. It IS his job, his #1 job, to protect us. Of course a nation must have laws, but that's all up to interpretation. Now I just heard this morning that sleep deprivation is now considered torture. What is the CIA to do? Feed the terrorists their orange juice and wheaties after 8 hours of shut eye and daily prayers and then politely ask them to reveal where the suitcase bomb is located?
And, do you really believe the whole world would have embraced us forever after 9-11 if we had just turned the other cheek and let by gones be by gones. Hell no ! We have never been a beloved country by the rest of the world. What we have been is a source of wealth and protection for the rest of the world and when the $$$ and protection stops flowing, so does the love.
Holder/Obama should never have dredged up this whole damn torture thing again. If anything, we should be examining WHAT WORKED to prevent additional terror attacks because that is the bottom line.
jools - "If anything, we should be examining WHAT WORKED to prevent additional terror attacks because that is the bottom line."
That's a statement I can agree with. Because every single study I've ever read or heard about agrees that torture does not work! It has never worked as a means of extracting reliable information from someone.
The only place where torture was shown to be reliable was on "24".
A threat, in my book, is not equal to torture. Waterboarding aside (because that would truly suck to have to be subjected to), all they're really admitting to doing is threatening people. How is that torture?
"But even then, it was understood that the United States would never, ever, initiate hostilities." I don't see where they're talking about initiating hostilities in the quotes you have in your post. In fact, it specifically says that one interrogator said a colleague warned about killing children if any other attacks happened in the U.S. Personally, I'm interpreting that to mean that if they attacked us on our own soil, they could expect retribution.
But maybe I'm reading that wrong. ::shrugs::
I see nothing wrong with threats like that being made, if the end result is information given about possible future attacks on U.S. soil. Or any other soil, for that matter. I grew up thinking that the CIA was a group of badasses that would take you to task if you ever got hauled in, so it's been a large goal of mine to never do anything to cause that to happen. Terrorists are beneath us all, even the CIA guys you think are so awful for being so callous as to threaten death on children and sexual assault on mothers. But I clearly have a different perspective from you, having been born in '74, and all.
faith - Sorry. I don't think that there are any circumstances where officials of the United States government should be threatening to rape someone's mother in front of them or kill their children.
We are supposed to be better than that.
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