Sunday, August 19, 2007

Misty Horner BUMP

Just to keep this in focus. I will probably have to create a separate blog just for this topic. I am not letting this go.

I don't know why this case doesn't get more attention. But I aim to change that.
Everything about this case pisses me off and makes me want to puke.

I think I'll have to add a new hobby to my profile. "Photography, playing my congas, doing everything I can to make sure that John and Caleb Horner get sent to a 'pound me in the ass' prison to rot until they die of ass cancer and septic shock."

The following background was from reporting done by KMBC.

"Misty Horner died on Jan. 9, apparently of septic shock. The month before, she had delivered a stillborn child in her Lee’s Summit home.

“Misty had contractions from Saturday all the way through to Friday,” Moore said. “A whole week.”

At the end of that week, on Friday, Dec. 1, the baby came out breach and was hanging out backward, caught at the neck, Moore said.

“(Caleb) didn’t know what the heck he’s doing — he has no medical training, he’s not a doctor, he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He takes the scissors and cuts her and performs an episiotomy. The baby finally comes out, and the baby’s dead,” Moore said.

After that, she said her friend became ill suffering from septic shock.

“The medical examiner told Caleb, ‘Caleb I understand your beliefs. All it will take is an antibiotic and Misty will be OK,’ and Caleb said no,” Moore said.

A month later, Misty Horner died

This all happened seven fucking months ago. Seven months in which the Lee's Summit Police Department has been dragging it's feet, covering it's ass and doing everything it possibly could to protect one of its own who is clearly guilty of practicing medicine without a license, spousal abuse and, in my humble opinion, manslaughter and possibly even pre-meditated murder. With his brother John as an accomplice and co-conspiritor.

Only now, have prosecutors gotten involved. From The Kansas City Star:

"Prosecutors have taken up the investigation into the death of a policeman’s wife who refused medical treatment as she battled infection following the still-born delivery of her baby.

A spokesman for Jackson County Prosecutor Jim Kanatzar said today that the office was reviewing the deaths of Misty Horner and her baby, Sydney, but declined to comment further.

That acknowledgement comes after police spent more than seven months investigating the deaths. The case generated widespread interest because the Horner family shunned medical attention as part of their religious beliefs, and because of Caleb Horner’s position as a Lee’s Summit police officer.

Misty Horner, 30, died Jan. 9 in their home. A month earlier, she delivered her stillborn daughter, Sydney Kay. Over that month, several family members and friends visited with Misty Horner, and have told The Star that they noticed her weakening health. Some say they pleaded with Horner and her husband to go to the hospital. But the couple continually refused, citing their religious beliefs, they said.

Police were called to the home Dec. 31 on reports that Misty Horner was “very sick” and possibly dying. She refused aid from paramedics.

A Missouri death certificate lists her cause of death as blood poisoning and infection that spread to her heart and uterus following the stillborn delivery

The Mansfields (Misty's parents -XO) have said they felt that their daughter was brainwashed and that someone should be held accountable.

“You can say that your religious belief is to throw a baby into a volcano as human sacrifice,” Darrell Mansfield said. “But that doesn’t make it legal

The Horners are a bunch of backwater, trailer-trash, hillbilly fucktards whose cultish religious beliefs are killing people. They, and anyone else in the Lee's Summit Police Department or City Government who in any way helped to cover Horner asses, need to be dragged in front of the courts and held accountable for the blood on their hands.

I have LOTS of questions that I'm hoping some of my readers can help answer. This is one time when I actually ENCOURAGE anonymous commentors. All I ask is that you cite sources if possible and help us get some justice done.

Q1: Who the fuck is John Horner?
Q2: Where did John Horner get his religious instruction?
Q3: Is this "Horner Cult" a subset of some recognizable religious denomination? Seventh Day Adventists? Christian Scientists? Jehovah's Witnesses? Mormons? Does anybody know?
Q4: If the "Horner Cult" IS affiliated with a more mainstream denomination, what is that denominations position on the "Horner Cult"? Do they endorse it, embrace it, condemn it? What?
Q5: Where, exactly, is this "church" in eastern Jackson County? I might be interested in attending a service. Maybe they can save my soul from eternal damnation. Shouldn't saving sinners be a larger calling than secrecy? I'm a sinner. Send me an invitation, John. I would LOVE to hear you preach!
Q6: Does this "Horner Cult" have some other name? What do they call themselves?
Q7: How many members does this "church" have?
Q8: Does this "church" enjoy tax exempt status? Isn't that public information?
Q9: Only the teachings about avoiding ACTUAL, PROVEN, SCIENTIFIC MEDICAL CARE in favor of some wacked out cop with a pair of scissors and a prayer have come to light in the news. What other interesting teachings might we find interesting? Enlighten us, John Horner. Come forth and share your divine wisdom!
Q10: How can people be so fucking stupid?

If my younger brother came to me and told me he had received some sort of instruction from God and that me and my family should do whatever he says...I would bitch-slap that ignorant fucker, steal his wallet and kick him into rush hour traffic.

I just have NO PATIENCE and ZERO TOLERANCE for ignorant, superstitious, mystical, supernatural, mind-controlling, domineering, abusive, controlling BULLSHIT! Whether it somes from The Pope or John Horner. It is all the same.

Let's put these sonsabitches behind bars, where they belong.

If you are as outraged by this case as I am, and if you have any information to share, post a comment or send me an email.

I really, REALLY want to see justice done.


Xavier Onassis said...

Janet said...
Well, they aren't JW's, but as an ex-jw, I actually knew of this when it happened. I'll go back and see if I can find any info. I'm pretty sure the name of their faith was mentioned.

August 16, 2007 9:18 PM

travelingal said...
How can a person like this be a police officer? Aren't they required to give medical assistance to injured people or perform CPR if necessary, etc. in the course of their duties?

Horrible story.

August 16, 2007 9:37 PM

Joe said...
Y'know, Travelingal makes a good point. How can this guy do his job with his religous beliefs? Or, is medical attention good enough for the general public but not his wife? Fucktards, the whole lot of them.

August 16, 2007 11:05 PM

Heather said...
I thought I read something to the effect that this religion was something just within their little circle, not at all mainstream, and founded by that Horner guy. I don't know the basis of their doctrine, but apparently having the IQ of a head of lettuce is a requirement.

I've taken care of patients who belong to religions that ban various aspects of medical care. As much as it frustrates us that they won't allow us to do the simplest of things that would save their lives, we have to respect their wishes, even if they belong to some quack religion.

In that regard, if it is on record that Misty Horner herself refused to be treated, I don't see how they can "throw the book" at Caleb Horner. They might be able to get him for practicing without a medical license (doing the crude episiotomy), but if she refused medical care, I'm not sure they can take this case very far.

I've been watching this case with interest. It's horrible to be certain, and the Horner boys need to be drug through downtown from the back of a truck, but Misty was a grownup with nothing documented that would indicate she was not able to make her own medical decisions. I can understand her parents anger and grief, but they are going to have a hard time proving she was not in sound mind.

Having said this, I hope the Horners burn in hell.

August 16, 2007 11:07 PM

Xavier Onassis said...
heather - "In that regard, if it is on record that Misty Horner herself refused to be treated, I don't see how they can "throw the book" at Caleb Horner."

That is the whole problem. In all of the reports I have read, Misty Horner was treated like a manequin on the couch.

Caleb Horner's Lee's Summit Police collegues came by with an ambulance in tow, trying to convince CALEB to seek help for his wife. HE refused.

I haven't seen any evidence of concerned parties going directly to Misty asking her "Fuck Caleb! What do YOU want? Do you want the one, single, simple shot of antibiotics that will save your life? Or would you rather submit to your hillbilly husband and die a slow, painful, unnecessary death?"

All I have seen are reports of this fucktard Caleb making decisions for his wife based on the teachings of his brother John. I don't know that Misty was ever consulted regarding her health care.

After all, she's "just a woman".

August 16, 2007 11:22 PM

travelingal said...
If I was Misty's mother, I would have grabbed my daughter at gunpoint if necessary and found a doctor or got ahold of the strongest antibiotics on the market and treated her myself. I honestly believe I would have shot the bastard if he tried to prevent me from doing it.

August 16, 2007 11:42 PM

Heather said...
In the event someone is incapable of making their own medical decisions, the spouse has the right to do it. What her parents could have done is gone to court for for DPOA status (I don't know if this was done or not). In an urgent situation, it can be done fairly quickly. If Misty Horner had refused medical care at any point when she was coherent, it would probably be enough for her husband to say he was upholding her wishes. I hate to say it, but had the parents tried to go the court route to get emergency DPOA, they probably would have been denied.

I'm not saying I agree with what happened (in fact, I think it's bullshit), I am saying that is how our medical system is set up. I've seen it happen more times than I care to...a patient's wishes going unheeded because they didn't have a living will, didn't have an assigned DPOA, and next-of-kin pretty much gets to do whatever they want. I saw a patient suffer for 6 monts straight, rotting from the inside-out from cancer, because his kids were selfish, and the patient didn't have advanced directives.

This case resides plainly in that gray area. It's no wonder everyone is reticent to touch it. It comes down to patient rights. If that asshole husband can prove Misty was in agreeance with all this, the courts will more than likely side with him. Just look at what happened with Terry Schiavo.

While the parents may argue that Misty Horner was brainwashed into this quack religion, I don't think it would hold water as there is nothing to say she was incapable of making any decisions. She chose to follow this retard and his brother, and all the consequences that followed. The parents are going to have one hard, nasty fight ahead of them. I wish them all the luck.

Please understand, I'm not here supporting Horner or the rest of the brainless fucktards that follow them. I'm just speaking from someone who works in the medical field, and has seen this scenario play out before.

August 17, 2007 12:17 AM

travelingal said...
Heather...I agree with you. That's why I would have taken matters into my own hands. Probably would be sitting in jail, but at least my daughter would have been alive.

August 17, 2007 8:57 AM

Anonymous said...
XO, your righteous and appropriate indignation is largely mitigated by your 'pound me in the ass' prison slur.

August 17, 2007 11:44 AM

satyavati said...
Wow, I don't have to say a thing because Heather said it all a lot better than I could. So thank you for 1. the validation and 2. saving me an assload of typing..

and XO...I'm sorr for being ignorant, superstitious, mystical, and supernatural but I swear I'm not mind-controlling, domineering, abusive or controlling. Really.


August 17, 2007 6:11 PM

Xavier Onassis said...
heather - "In the event someone is incapable of making their own medical decisions, the spouse has the right to do it."

I haven't seen anything to indicate that she was "incapable" of making her own medical decisions. Other than the fact that apparently the Horner Belief precludes a mere woman from deciding such important matters. Only a Male Spiritual Leader may decide such things.

I respect and appreciate your perspective regarding what the laws, rules and regulations in the medical field allow. I am not suggesting that any medical personnel were in any way negligent.

What I AM suggesting is that someone who cared about Misty should have taken a Louisville Slugger to the side of Caleb Horners mostly empty skull, taken Misty to a hospital for treatment, and filed an ex parte and divorce papers against that abusive bastard before he woke up.

Had that happened, she would still be alive and his sorry fucking hillbilly ass would be in prison where he belongs.

Travel - exactly what I just said.

anonymous - "XO, your righteous and appropriate indignation is largely mitigated by your 'pound me in the ass' prison slur." You need to go rent Office Space.

satyavati - LOL! Don't take any of that personally. Although I personally feel that our planet and it's inhabitants would be better off without any supernatural crutches, I generally don't begrudge people's personal beliefs.

It is only when they start embracing the hubris of believing that everyone else must conform to their views or be destroyed that I have a problem.

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut if people want to believe in God, Jehovah, Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, Krishna, Xenu, Klingons, Tolkienesque Elves and Hobbits, Garden Gnomes or Benevolent Aliens. Just keep that shit to yourself and we will get along fine.

But when you start trying to shove that shit down other people's throats, brainwashing the people you supposedly love, and causing people to die, I'm going to call BULLSHIT.

August 17, 2007 7:52 PM

Janet said...
Heather, I'm sure you're quite familiar with JW's and the whole blood issue.

Are you aware that they are allowed certain fractions? Their Hospital liaison committee (two or three of their elders) are quite aware of this, and can help you convince them to at least get SOME blood.

Yes, it's completely hypocritical, but they will never completely reverse their blood stance because of the thousands of lawsuits they would probably get hit with if they did.

August 18, 2007 9:59 AM

Heather said...
When I worked in Ortho, we used this special ortho-infuser for post-op patients. Whatever drained from the op-site went into a special little machine that spun the blood and reinfused it back into the patient. Apparently, this was acceptable to the JW's because "the blood never really left the body". Just took a field trip?

Had a patient who was a JW and absolutely REFUSED blood, even though it would save her life. Instead, she had her family bring in these nasty smoothies with veggies and crap high in iron. And she had prayer meetings in her room every five minutes.

She still died.

August 18, 2007 4:13 PM

Anonymous said...
JOHN HORNER... the name and similar circumstance rings some bells... an incident in Springfield Mo occured years ago that involed the SAME name...possibly the same man?!?!?! look into it guys.....

August 19, 2007 9:46 AM

Been There 2 said...
You are correct. This is indeed that same John Horner from the incident in Springfield several years ago. John's religious affiliation was with mainstream Pentecostal churches until he fell under the teachings of John Lake, who taught against ALL forms of medicinal healing. The church basically kicked in out (he was actually on staff in southern MO at one time in this particular organized church) for his teachings and ever increasingly outrageous behavior. John then moved back the KC area where he started his own home based church. John's main teachings centered entirely upon how evil medicine was and how the "church" was an abomination. John does not believe in paying taxes or having insurance. He prints up insurance cards of his own to present to officers if pulled over. They look pretty real. John is a control freak who basically makes you feel like you are going to hell if you do not follow and believe his teachings. He thinks that he is the only "preacher" in this country that is right and righteous.
As for where his "church" is at, it is in his home just east of Lone Jack. I wish that I had the exact address because I would absolutely print it here for you all.
You may ask how I know all of this. Unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way...from John himself. And no, I am not some brain dead idiot. I do not blindly follow ANYONE ever. John is a manipulator and is very practiced at the art of brainwashing. It's a fact. I truly believe that John should be held responsible for Misty's death, just as much as Caleb. John does not have anyone's interests at heart exept for his own.

August 19, 2007 5:35 PM

Cloud_Writer said...
I've been watching since day-one too.

'She didn't have to die'
Parents cope with death of daughter denied help by husband
Blue Springs Examiner, MO
By Andre Riley
January 20, 2007
...According to Misty's family, the couple declined medical treatment because of they believed scientific healing was an affront to the healing power of Jesus Christ. THOSE SAME BELIEFS LED CALEB TO ISOLATE HIS WIFE FROM HER FAMILY, EXCEPT FOR FEW BRIEF VISITS, they said...




August 19, 2007 6:38 PM

crse said...

You know, I cant read the details but im trying to follow without the grisliness. I know at our hospital, if there are indications of abuse, regardless of religious beliefs, the treatment is done and questions are asked later. Im not sure if its because we are living in some sort of "good ole' boy" network or the fear that something like this could happen (or maybe did?) and they are afraid of retribution? (legal not holy) I have a family with similar beliefs and family dynamics. The state is involved and when hospitalization is required, its tense but she and/or the kids go. He is the only one not compelled. If she refused, there is some sort of numbered thing 267? That allows for the involuntary hospitalization of everyone but him. I know she didnt agree to it because she is so enmeshed that she never would speak against him. Like i said, i have no idea about the details and I know they arent JWS either. It could be a PA thing. Id totally be into beating someone to get my loved one in the hospital. Im just saying.

Brooksider said...

A bit off topic: There is an interesting book titled “God vs. The Gavel – Religion and the Rule of Law” by Marci A. Hoffman where she details the vast array of laws which people can avoid in the name of religion. It is interesting and frightening. This particular case is a good, if extreme, example. You can set up your home as a place of worship (and avoid most local zoning laws that apply to your neighbors). You can establish most any guidelines for worship, including refusing medical care for loved ones and children. And you can sit and watch them die.

Hoffman’s basic tenet is there should be a “No Harm” rule. As long as your worship does no harm to anyone or anything else, then you should be free to follow your faith. But there should be reasonable limits. Part One ‘Why The Law Must Govern Religious Entities’ presents various real cases covering Children, Marriage, Religious Land Use and Residential Neighborhoods, Schools, Prisons and the Military, and Discrimination. Part Two seems more technical ‘The History and Doctrine Behind the Rule That Subjects Religious Entities to Duly Enacted Laws’.

It’s well written, a quick read and available at many libraries.

I don’t think our Founders had killing in mind when they were discussing religious freedom. Indeed one of the things they hoped to avoid was the religious conflict and bloodshed England had experienced.

I also think that an opinion poll taken today asking, “Should people be allowed to kill others if their religious beliefs directs or allows them to do so?” would return a resounding NO majority. At least I hope so.

Why isn’t religion leading the charge against violence and harm?

Keep beating the drum XO. Back to the topic.

We Know said...

We Know

One fact that has gone unreported is that Caleb Horner was NOT Misty's husband. They were not married, There is no marragr license on file.(Check the missouri department of vital sistacts) John wrote up his own marrage licenses. john is not a licensed pastor and his so called church is not recorded or recognised as a church. Oh by the way he dose collect thyings. John is not trying to save peoples souls this is all about money and where it dosen't go.

Jay Arnold said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay Arnold said...

XO-I'm with you, It totally pisses me off. This is yet another failure of the family services in Missouri in charge of abuse and neglect. If you or I didn't treat our children when they are sick, our asses would be behind bars. It's simple: The Lee's Summit Police Department is protecting one of their own. The officers that showed up violated the law but not turning this in to family services and letting him practice medicine. What are the elected officals of Lee's Summit going to do about it? Probably nothing and let it slide under the table. If the ass truley believed in what he preaches, he would not be hiding and running. I think that this should be investagated by the State of Missouri attorney generals office. Maybe some preasure on the governor boy wonder is in order. This is going on his state and he is Mr. Prolife! Sad state of affairs. I'm with you XO, all the way man!

Xavier Onassis said...

MANY THANKS to Been There 2, Cloud Writer, We Know and all of the other tipsters who have supplied additional information on this case. I am in the process of putting together a permanent blog dedicated to this case. Look for links to it here.

If the Horners thought this case (and all of the other, previous cases that are now bubbling up) would "just go away", they were sadly mistaken.

Justice WILL be done.

smedrock said...

Would you like my help again on the new blog?

satyavati said...

Look, I'm not trying to be a bitch, but it doesn't matter if you, Jesus, the President, or for that matter, Bin Laden thinks that Horner ought to die or that this shouldn't have happened.

An adult in sound mind has every right to refuse any and all medical treatment regardless of whether it will save their life.

If they want to do some postmortem trial to declare her incompetent to make her own decisions, that's up to them. Just because all you hear on the TV is that he was making decisions for her doesn't mean that at the time she didn't say it for herself. In fact I can just about guarantee that she did say it for herself. Whether she did that under duress or whatever is neither here nor there. She said it.

This is the equivalent of me refusing, say, pork insulin on the grounds that it's an animal, and then going into DKA and dying from a blood sugar of 1350, and then my mother trying to sue my husband because I refused the insulin based on my religious beliefs.

You just can't do that.

Once again, it falls upon the consumer to state their beliefs legally and in writing if they want or don't want medical treatment. Then none of this time would have to be wasted in arguing about it.

I'm not saying the guy's not crazy. I'm not saying that possibly their relationship was abusive. I'm not denying that religious abuse can and does occur to the detriment of lots of people (can you say Jim Jones and Heaven's Gate?) but what I AM saying is that there is no legal recourse when a sane adult states they don't want a medical procedure or treatment for illness.

God knows I've signed enough people out of the hospital AMA (against medical advice) in the years I've been working.

There's just nothing that anyone can do. Going on about it, even though I love you, is just so much bullshit and a waste of time at this point.

Oh, and travelingal; if you come across an emergency, if the person is conscious and able to refuse, you can't touch them. If they're unconscious, you assume they would give you permission to do what would save their life. That's covered under the 'Good Samaritan' laws.

Let's talk about Michael Vick instead.

We Know said...

We Know

If Misty believed that the horners religon wouldsave her then why did Caleb do a botched up Medical Procuder. That is a setp beyond prayer. Is caleb horner a DOCTOR or have a MEDICAL LICENSE? What woman after being in hard labor for seven days would be thinking in the right state of mind. In a crimal Case when a suspect is being intervied and agrees to talk. At any time they can stop talking the interview is over.
How do you know that Misty did not ask for HELP?

Heather said...

At best, they could be nailed for practicing without a medical license...and that's about it.

satyavati said...

I have seen doctors (resident 1's, Heather, LOL) stand at the foot of the bed and cry because the patient was dying, ordering epinephrine, and me telling them that we can't give it because the patient's a no code.

The bottom line is this: you have the right to refuse any and all medical treatment regardless of whether or not it will save your life.

If someone comes into the ER with a gaping chest wound, if they can walk and want to, they have the right.

If they're up on the floor in major withdrawal, they have the right to sign themselves out and go get as high as they possibly can.

If they've got a hot appendix that's about to burst and they refuse surgery, they have that right.

Our LEGAL responsibility as healthcare providers is to make sure that the patient understands the possible consequences of refusing treatment. This is the same as when a doctor outlines the risks and possible consequences prior to surgery. This ensures that the patient is making an informed decision; hence the term 'informed consent'.

No healthcare provider has the right to supercede the wishes of an adult in sound mind regarding their healthcare. If someone's a no code, and you resuscitate them, they're going to sue your ass off because you didn't let them die. The policy is, obviously, when in doubt, run the code, but I was at a code about nine months ago where a nurse ran in the room screaming to stop because the patient was a no code. And we all stepped back and just watched.

People can argue about this for years if they like but it isn't going to get anywhere. I'm sorry if that pisses you off or disappoints you, but like I said, you're just wasting so much time and emotional energy. The laws are in place. 'Involuntary commitment' takes place when a person is a danger to themselves or others and is judged to be incompetent to make decisions. And commitment papers are not only dated, but time-stamped, and good for 24 hours only. At 24 hours and 30 seconds, if you haven't got them renewed, the patient can walk. And they often do.

This is the reality of healthcare. I'm sorry; it's not always nice. But all the bitching and screaming isn't going to change a thing.

Xavier Onassis said...

smedrock - you are a patient saint for even offering your help. Given the 43,742 emails it took to iron out the details of this site, I would think you would have had your fill of my picky-ass, whiny bullshit by now. But email me (In know you have THAT address) and we can discuss. I'm actually envisioning a one-post-blog that just gets edited and updated with new info. That way everything is right there, on one page, all the time.

heather and satyavati - I certainly bow to your superior knowledge of consent laws and medical care. Maybe I can't send these fucktards to jail. Maybe they can't be charged with a crime. But I can at least shine a really bright light on these cockroaches and let everyone know what bottom-feeding, scum-sucking leeches they are, preying on peoples weaknesses for their own profit while the dead bodies just keep piling up.

Have I ever mentioned my Sir Galahad complex?

Yeah. I have "issues".

bump said...

hey , good input, but if you want the real insider XO or any others ask me....Im Misty's father.. believe me or not

Xavier Onassis said...

Anonymous said...

Let me assure you that Lee's Summit PD is NOT trying to 'cover for one of their own'. In this case the reason it has taken so long is to make sure that no rock has been left unturned and to make sure that every t is crossed and every i is dotted. To make sure that every RSMO charge that can be presented to the prosecutor is so that the case is heard and that he is tried for those charges.

And the comment that LSPD went but only asked him, never asked her what SHE wanted to do. PLEASE, that is a slap in the face to her friends and family that did show up and asked her and got the response of 'I have to be submissive to my husband, I don't want to go or receive any medicine'. Her friends and family did EVERY thing they could to convince her to seek help!!

She was a Dispatcher at the Police Department the same that he was an Officer, do not think for one second that LSPD would try to cover up for what happened to who may very well have been the best Dispatcher they ever had!

And it is my understanding as far as him being an Officer and his beliefs---He believed that if you were hurt that it was your right to choose medical attention the same as it was his to decline it. He would call you an ambulance or try to 'save' you because he felt that it was your beliefs, he just would not want the same done for himself.

distant_screamer said...

Dammit how do I contact you? Can I have your email address or something? I'm what you could call an "insider" on the whole John Horner thing...I don't want to put out any other info so please send me your email address ASAP Thank you!

Cloud_Writer said...

I just blogged this

[MO] Officer Horner blames the devil. Misty's parents blame him. -

and then started looking around and found you.
Hmmm. Refreshing that you plan on holding onto this. Folks NEED to!





Anonymous said...


Xavier Onassis said...

That last threatening comment came from IP address

They are in Alton, IL (I'll look through my deep background info and see if there is an Alton, IL connection to the case...although many of those involved have scurried underground out of shame and relocated).

Their ISP is AT&T Internet Services, and we all know what a whore AT&T is when it comes to coughing up information. I think just an email from a yahoo address claiming to be with Homeland Security is enough to make AT&T sing like a canary.

They found me by doing a google search on “John Horner Cult Leader” (John Horner was Caleb's brother).

They are running Windows VISTA with MSIE 7.0 in 1280x1024 and they have Javascript enabled.

The threatening comment was left on July 23, 2008 at 11:02 PM .

The IP address shown above visited this page on on July 23 at 10:29pm, 10:47pm, 11:04pm, 11:07pm and 11:08pm.

At 12:39am on July 24th, about 90 minutes after the initial threat was made, I got a visit to this exact same webpage from IP address in Lexington or Holden, MO. A bit closer to home than Alton, IL.

That individual's ISP is Embarq, they found me by doing a google search on "Caleb Horner", they are also running Windows Vista with MSIE 7.0, but at 1024x768. They also have Javascript enabled.

The negligent manslaughter of Misty Horner and her infant child occured over 18 months ago.

Who, but someone either involved in the deaths or connected to one of those responsible for the deaths would find their way to my blog, that late at night, that much after the fact and leave such a threatening comment?

A prankster?

Don't think so.

I have some ideas who it might be.

The use of ALL CAPS and the lack of spelling skills (that should have been "add", not "ad" and "you're", not "your") are similar to source material that has been provided to me by people close to the case.

I will be disseminating this information in several different places on the Interwebs.

It's like peeing in the pool. It will stay there forever.

I also have a very good friend who just happens to be a private investigator.

I should have names, addresses and employers within 24 hours, tops.

What I do with that information depends on what happens next.

You may want to take your fundy lunacy elsewhere.

The Beltway B@stard said...

Nightmare just turned me onto this. I have some resources at my disposal, and have passed the info on.

One of us will get back to you if something comes up.

Xavier Onassis said...

The Beltway B@stard - thank you, my brother. I love having "people".

Anonymous said...

I went to college with John Horner at Southwest Baptist University. He was a radical then also. None of this suprises me. We were not taught these beliefs at my college. He brought these beliefs with him. What is the name of his current church?

Ba‘al ZebĂ»b said...

Anonymous - I'm not sure. I think it's pretty much a family church akin to Fred Phelps in Topeka.

He self-published a manifesto titled "If God Started A Church..." via The Key Publications at 3201 West Pipeline Road in Euless, Texas.

It's loosely based on The Book of Acts.

Listed an email address of and the websight, (817)-283-1700, none of which seem to be any good.

The back of his pamphlet listed an address of John Horner, P.O.B. 102, Strasburg, MO., 64090.

I have an e-copy of his manifesto if you want to read just how batshit crazy this fucker is.

I should probably just publish it here and dare the fucker to come forward and sue me.

Ya know, shine a light on the cockroaches.

Adam said...

I went to church with John Horner when I was a kid (Rolling Hills Church - Springfield, MO). I was there when the "incident" occurred with his wife (at the time) Amy. I just now found all this new info about him when researching for an article I just wrote on my website, It's sad that his craziness continued to hurt more people.

You can read my article here:

And, if you have any updates, please let me know so I can share it with my readers (or you can post it in my comments section).

Mackenzie N said...

You have no idea what the heck you are talking about! John Horner is a terrible person, but Caleb is not. He made a mistake and none of you know who you are talking about. You have no right talking about the Horner family as a whole like that! You dont know anything about them! They suffered greatly because of this loss. THEY DIDNT WANT SYDNEY TO DIE!! I hate that you are talking about them like this! You have absolutly no right to talk like that! And travelingal, the thing is, YOU WERENT MISTYS MOM! you didnt even know her! And I hate that you guys are all talking about all of the Horners like they are idiots! You werent personally invested in this matter so BUG OFF! Mind your own freaking buisness! I hate that you guys are all talking about this family when you didnt event freaking know them!!! I dont like what happened and I wish that Caleb hadnt listened to his idiot brother (and I can say that because I know him) and had listened to his other side of the family when they begged him to go to the hospital, but he didnt. WEARE ALL SUFFERING FROM IT! It tore my family apart!

Ann said...

Mackenzie, you are WRONG. I know several of the Horner/Nield clan and I know that they are ALL NUTS!!!
When a crime has been committed it is EVERYONE'S business, little girl.