Conservatives Are Freeloaders!
Conservatives want to accumulate wealth, and enjoy all of the other advantages of living in a free, safe, capitalist society without having to pay for any of the physical, legal or societal infrastructure that makes that way of life possible.
They want to be absolutely free and unfettered to manipulate us and sell us shit and devise creative ways to separate us from our money to enrich themselves.
They want to ride us like Red Pollard rode Sea Biscuit without so much as a happy-finish rub down after the race.
But they don't want to be taxed to pay for the Interstate Highway system that makes commerce possible. That's "pork".
They don't want to be taxed for Unemployment Benefits, Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security because that's "socialism". Never mind the fact that the people collecting those benefits are folks on the edge of poverty that the conservatives fired to increase their profit margins so that they don't have to give up one of their 7 houses.
They don't want to be taxed to provide full medical end education benefits to the young men and women who serve in our Armed Forces and keep our country safe. "It's an all volunteer force! Nobody forced them to enlist! We paid them, put a roof over their heads and gave them 3 MREs a day. They knew what they were getting into! What's the problem?"
They don't want to be taxed to provide full medical and education benefits to the citizens of this country who work their asses off to make the rich richer. Shit happens. If you get bad sick, be prepared to sell your house, your car and beg everyone in your family and town to do the same so you can afford the medical treatments that MIGHT keep you alive from the doctors who make over $250,000.00 a year.
They don't want to be taxed to fund the basic research conducted by scientists and students at our universities that make the major scientific breakthroughs that create new products, new markets, and new opportunities for new wealth. I feel compelled to remind all readers that the precursor to the Internet that you are using right now was the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) which was tax payer funded research project. It was not a "small business, entrepreneurial" effort.
They don't want to be taxed to fund government institutions designed to look over their shoulders to make sure they aren't lying to people and stealing their money. They have been enabled in this by 8 years of the Bush administration. Which is exactly why we are where we are today. Because we let the financial industry run wild, create "vapor wealth", while the people in charge looked the other way knowing that as soon as they got out of government service they could hump that pooch for all the cash it was worth.
Today, these selfish, greedy conservatives are overestimating the attendance of other selfish, greedy, brainless Fox-Zombies at their inherently racist "Tea Parties".
I say racist because the Boston Tea Party on which these "Taxed Enough Already" protests are modelled involved colonists committing what were at the time criminal acts while dressed in such a way as to deflect the blame to our indigenous population. "It was now evening, and I immediately dressed myself in the costume of an Indian, equipped with a small hatchet, which I and my associates denominated the tomahawk, with which, and a club, after having painted my face and hands with coal dust in the shop of a blacksmith, I repaired to Griffin's wharf, where the ships lay that contained the tea. When I first appeared in the street after being thus disguised, I fell in with many who were dressed, equipped and painted as I was, and who fell in with me and marched in order to the place of our destination."
If they were true patriots, why did they try to blame Native Americans? Why didn't they stand up and declare themselves as True American Patriots and consequences be damned!
Because just like the Tea-Baggers faux-protesting today, they are hypocrites. They want the benefits of America without paying the costs to support America.
You want "small government"? I have a role model for you. Somalia. They haven't had ANY government in 18 years! It's a Republican paradise! Unfettered capitalism! Entrepenuers Gone Wild!
Freeloaders.
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20 comments:
I really hope none of them ever end up sick and broke and needing government help.
Oh wait, yes I do.
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
All of the above, Thomas Jefferson. The man behind the words that allow you to bloviate about how bad his ideas were.
You remain King of the Straw Man, XO. Unfortunately, all to many of both so-called political parties employ the same flawed logic you do.
Yeah, nice straw man, HSW, real shame if anything happened to it.The conservatives-are-evil meme is tiresome and adolescent. Why do you live in Liberty? Move to the inner-city and put your exemplary compassion to real use. I imagine the only reason you don't is your inherent racism. Or your inherent & closeted conservatism.
A few things:
Where the fuck were these people eight years ago? Seriously, these tea-baggers are late to the party.
BTW I wonder if any of them are aware that part of this new and big budget is the fact that our wars are now on the books instead of being obfuscated by accounting fraud?
Does is also strike anyone as strange that the composition of this protest seems to be from a few small groups - Utopian libertarians or sore-losing republicans?
Real and effective government in a complex modern republic requires a bit more thought than astro-turf protests organized by Dick Armey & Faux News.
As someone who is 'over-taxed' I pay an actual effective Federal tax rate of less than 10%. I have a hard time imagining what these people are upset about if they have, as I do, a mortgage, kids, and pay other property taxes. Those deductions reduce your effective tax rates oodles. Methinks the gentle-persons doth protest too much.
There's a serious discussion to be had on the tax system, but so far only Mr. Obama is serious about having it, which is a sad commentary on the body politic.
Keith, and any others who THINK they know what the TEA party was about:
It wasn't just about HOW MUCH we are paying in taxes, it's about what the government is spending it on.
Let me put it this way Keith, suppose the US Government was giving Magellan $1 billion dollars in aid to keep them from going bancrupt.... might your opinion be different then (assuming you still work for Garmin)?
And none of the Tea party attenders said so much as a mouse-fart when BushCo decided to burn our tax dollars in the dessert.
Oh wait, they did. They called those of us who were right about the Iraq boondoggle traitors. I remember that.
Again, I'm waiting for any tea-bagger to give me a reason other than "my side lost" to take them seriously.
Keith, that fact that we wasted money in the past is not a good rationale for continuing to waste money in the present (and future).
When you find you've dug yourself into a hole, the first thing you should do is stop digging.
Keith, I attended two of the TEA parties yesterday, and I've said that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are wrong and we need to stop wasting the money. I've said it since day one.
I don't call people who oppose those wars traitors. But I call people who blindly follow a political parties idealogy a traitor, if that idealogy conflicts with the US Constitution.
So Keith, I take it you'd have a problem with the Feds giving Magellan money to keep them in business... since you completely avoided that.
As a veteran of many many flame wars, feel free to address the following points:
1. Where was this outrage by these Tea-partiers eight years ago? It's been 100 days with the new guy, there's another 2920 to catch up.
2. Why exactly was it ok to give billions to CEOs and financial ruiners when the previous guy was in office but somehow now we've all become concerned? The administration and legislature in charge now is trying to clean up after the previous one that came in with peace & surplus and left our nation like Wall St. has left Main St. - broke & in turmoil.
3. What exactly would you like removed from the current budget? Do you want to shut the entire govt down? That would be inane and impractical see 1996 as an example. I'm dying to hear anything other than "Well, I don't like it." Solutions would be more than welcome. Useful solutions would be a godsend.
4. Are you not the least bit outraged that this 'protest' was organized by the people who were in charge of the debacle that led up to where we are now? I find it hard to believe this was a genuine grass-roots protest when it was organized by Dick Armey & Fox news; astroturf - fake grass roots.
5. Did these tea-partiers protest outside of the offices of the people who made this mess? If not, why? Is it ok to protest the agency cleaning the mess, but not the mess-makers?
Again, the constant litany of these folks seems to be "we lost, dammit why won't you do things the way we want?" For the party of rugged-individualism, it sure seems to take defeat without a stiff upper lip.
BTW if the government gave Magellan $1B, they'd still be 1/4 the size of Garmin and they'd still have a sucky product. The analogy fall flat.
I've seen a great impression on the rallies here
Fox News sure as heck didn't organize the first tea parties that kicked this whole event off in February. I was there...400 of us by Dennis Moore's office. That was strictly grass roots and there were several small ones around the country then and that all ballooned into the protests 4/15 in every state. All fueled by the internet, bloggers, and picked up by Fox News after the all was rolling down the hill.
And, something else. The conservatives realize all too well that they are leaderless at this point ... thus we are taking matters into our own hands and saying WAKE UP GUYS. Get your act together or else.
And, as far as the past vs the present, in one month Obama and company tripled the spending on the entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And, that doesn't even count the trillion the FDIC has bestowed upon the banks without so much as a review by Congress, much less approval. Even China is ditching us. The message is STOP this now. NO MORE !
Fox News sure as heck didn't organize the first tea parties that kicked this whole event off in February. I was there...400 of us by Dennis Moore's office. That was strictly grass roots and there were several small ones around the country then and that all ballooned into the protests 4/15 in every state. All fueled by the internet, bloggers, and picked up by Fox News after the all was rolling down the hill.
And, something else. The conservatives realize all too well that they are leaderless at this point ... thus we are taking matters into our own hands and saying WAKE UP GUYS. Get your act together or else.
And, as far as the past vs the present, in one month Obama and company tripled the spending on the entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars. And, that doesn't even count the trillion the FDIC has bestowed upon the banks without so much as a review by Congress, much less approval. Even China is ditching us. The message is STOP this now. NO MORE !
Old Fart - "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
That's true. Which is why our Founding Father's, Jefferson included, chose to form a Republic rather than a democracy.
emaw - "Keith, that fact that we wasted money in the past is not a good rationale for continuing to waste money in the present (and future)."
That may be true, emaw. But asking why people who are seemingly outraged about wasting money now why they weren't the least bit concerned about wasting money for the last 8 years is a perfectly legitimate question. I haven't seen any of you answer that question.
Old Fart - "But I call people who blindly follow a political parties idealogy a traitor, if that idealogy conflicts with the US Constitution." Exsqueeze me? What, exactly (and be very specific here), do you think that anyone has does that violates the Constitution?
Please tell me you aren't some anti-Federal Reserve, pro-gold standard, States Rights, Tri-Lateral Commission, Committee on Foreign Relations, Illuminati, Bilderberg fringe type. Because I had you pegged higher than that.
Keith - Thanks for keeping an eye on things while I was at work!
"But asking why people who are seemingly outraged about wasting money now why they weren't the least bit concerned about wasting money for the last 8 years is a perfectly legitimate question."
Umm... no. Not really. Doing so presuposes that they weren't the least bit concerned 8 years ago. You guys are really breaking out the logical fallacies today.
Consider this: You could just as easily ask why someone who was so outraged about wasteful spending 17 months ago why they are seemingly no longer concerned today when the wasteful spending seems to be getting worse, not better.
emaw - "Umm... no. Not really. Doing so presuposes that they weren't the least bit concerned 8 years ago. You guys are really breaking out the logical fallacies today."
Umm... no. We really aren't.
Perhaps you could provide some links to some "grass roots" republican/conservative efforts to restrain the Bush administration's spending on wars against imaginary enemies in Iraq?
Maybe a YouTube video from O'Rielly or Hannity condemning the unwinnable, illegal "wars" on unsymmetrical military tactics?
That would be AWESOME! Thanks!
I have limited time to respond tonight, so what I'll have to reply to XO tomorrow midmorning sometime.
But Keith, flame war? Have I flamed you? At any time? Ever?
I didn't think so.
#1. I protested the wars. I can't respond for everyone else that attended the TEA Parties, but most of the libertarian people who attended were against the wars and spoke out against them.
#2. Again, libertarians (like myself) were against ALL THE BAILOUTS, no matter who was throwing around taxpayer money to private businesses that were RUN INTO THE GROUND. I personally was (and still am) opposed to the AIG bailout. They are a competitor of the major insurance company I work for.
#3. Pork would be a great start. Do you need me to specify what pork is, or can it have the same definition it did 4 years ago when GWB was in office and Dems hated it? Shutting down government? Too extreme. Trim government to make it like a business, but not like AIG... which is what it runs like now.
#4. These weren't the first TEA parties. They've been growing. I'd love it if Fox News would just cover them rather than participating in FOUR of them. But they didn't start this. But just because a few talking heads feel as libertarians feel on a few subjects, doesn't lessen our commitment to those issues.
#5. Huh? You protest where it will be seen. If thats in front of AIG or BofA, great. If you can't get there, protest to the people who VOTE for the people handing those companies tax money.
Doesn't matter about Magellans size, or YOUR opinion of their product (not a bad product, no problems with mine). The point is it would keep them from having to file bancruptcy and loosing a good chunk of market share to competitors. It is artificial market manipulation. Much like the fiasco with AIG. State Farm, Liberty Mutual, and one other large insurance company were waiting on the sidelines in great financial shape waiting for the AIG collapse they forsaw... but the government stepped in and now AIG has implicit government backing to use to keep and get customers. Large commercail contracts worth millions.
XO... I'll reply tomorrow morn. Heading home from work in a moment.
xo - "What, exactly (and be very specific here), do you think that anyone has does that violates the Constitution?"
Warrantless wiretapping of American citizens communications. The Bush admin did it, it is still happening, and the Obama admin says they won't prosecute any past instances of this. Instead they say they'll make the safeguards better. We heard the same bullshit from GWB about the safeguards.
I can go on to others, but I'll limit it to just the one for you to be able to quickly dismiss it as unimportant or an inherited problem.
No. I am not anti-federal reserve, but it needs to be tweaked. More transparency.
No. I am not pro-gold standard. Once that horse was out of the barn and we went with an elastic currency the toothpaste wasn't going back in the tube.
Yes. I am pro states rights. California should be able to legalize medical marijuana and the DEA/FBI should leave the people alone.
The rest of your points were too insane to even contemplate
"Umm... no. We really aren't."
Umm.. yes. You really are.
At least you haven't shown, logically, why it matters if someone going to a demonstration three days ago didn't go to a demonstration two, four, six years ago.
Your implication seems to be that the demonstrators are merely partisans. Of course, that cuts both ways and applies to critics of the demonstrators as well.
Well, crap. Now you've gone and made me write a post in response.
I stopped replying to this thread because it was bringing out the asshole in me that's because
1.) I'm an ass
2.) I'm at least person enough to recognize it. So please accept my apologies for being an ass.
Here's my position on government spending. We shouldn't spend more than we take in. After that is where the politics starts in, one person's pork is another's badly needed Federal Investment.
I think there are two issues here, one is the stimulus package, which is the bank/insurance give-away. This falls on both parties because both are too beholden to those interests. However, letting the whole system fail and increasing unemployment seems to be the worst of all possible scenarios. On the other hand, giving our $$$ away and not getting shares in those institutions seems foolish as well. This whole issue is related to taxes in that it relates to spending tax money but not into aggregate revenues in my mind. Let's table that.
The second discussion is how much should the budget be for the Federal government. I would love to see a limited small government. When I move off planet, I may. Until that time, I'm willing to give the current Congress & Administration at least two years to get this current mess cleaned up. I'm not going to get my shorts in a bunch because 110 days in I don't see rainbows and unicorns.
As I understand the current administration's position, these large budgets will continue for the next two years, after which they will start to reduce the deficit. I can only hope Mr. Obama has the guts to stand up to his own party like Mr. Clinton did in 1992. If that happens, I'll be more than pleased with his first term.
I have faith that this administration will set us on the path to financial sanity, however that faith will not be held without evidence for too long.
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